Grey Water Re-Use

(I hope my cousin does not mind but I am posting one of our email correspondances here! Basically Cousin was interested in integrating a grey water re-use system into her home in Pennsylvania)

Her question:

Hi Cousin,  I'm adding a bathroom to my house and asked my architect if i can have something installed to recycle the graywater from the bath/shower. I got a blank look!!!! then was told the local permitting process probably wouldn't permit it. When I was in Israel, my friend Yonit's shower drain led directly to her garden via a piece of exterior pvc pipe  are homes in the Northeast ever designed to recycle graywater? are there resources for my builder/architect to come up to speed on it if so? 

 (my rainbarrel )

My Answer:

I love the idea of grey water re-use and so do my clients BUT my clients usually end up just collecting their rain water and recycling it into watering gardens etc. The reason is simply cost. The more you are using actual grey water (from shower, washer, etc) the more you get into costly plumbing and filter systems and the more maintenance. (There are actually health issues re: bacteria and our codes are likely more stringent than in Israel,etc. That said every county is different- talk to your local water/ health official.  But yes it can be done and is done... sometimes)   

first a couple of links:

http://www.smarterhomes.org.nz/water/re-using-greywater/

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/green-products-and-materials/20806/grey-water-filtration-system

All of my clients so far have balked at the cost and opted for simple rain barrels or more elaborate rain water collection systems- gutters drain to underground holding tanks and go through light filtering, and are plumbed to the garden hoses or to an automated garden watering system...with overflow for the whole system to sewer or septic system. One step beyond this would be doing the plumbing to bring it to your toilet etc. This gets into minorly complicated plumbing because you have to be able to get water from your regular source as well as your water collection. Beyond this - potable water- is also possible with enough filters and plumbing. Just gets into $$$.  

 

(Image from Stark Environmental- Thank you Michael.)
Ironically the water collection guy I have talked to the most about water systems is in PA.

Here is his info: Michael Stark,  mstark@starkenvironmental.com, http://www.starkenvironmental.com/b-8-consultation.html  

You may not be able to get into the second link without a password so I copied below. I DO NOT agree with 'Maritn' on this one - his claim - that saving water in places with plenty of water is a waste of time- I feel is in correct. We are all going to be in a water crisis soon enough and what we do actually effects the whole world...for real scientific reasons - not just good karma!

Green Building Advisor Link: 

Grey water filtration system I have a customer requesting the installation of a grey water filtration/recycling system. The customer lives in the DC area and has explained that these systems are common and considered "green" in application in the urban DC area. The home I will be building for the customer is in the rural mountains of West Virginia. There is no shortage of water up here we have received close to 35" this year to date and average about 60" a year. We are looking to make budget decisions on "green" components. I admit I know little about these systems and have not talked to a plumber around here yet that doesn't say it is a waste of money. Is a grey water filtration/recycling system still "green" in an area that sees no water issues or will the system have a bigger footprint in terms of excess materials, maintenance, etc? ASKED BY JOSEPH GARTEN  POSTED SUN, 05/22/2011 - 10:47 

Answers newest to oldest oldest to newest:

You are probably better off using rainwater catchment over gray water. The water is much more pure, it needs minimal filtration and the entire system requires much less maintenance. Health codes generally restrict gray water to use in toilets and underground irrigation, while rainwater can be used for almost any use, including potable water (with proper filtration) and spray irrigation. The cost per gallon for rainwater is significantly less than gray water in terms of both first cost and ongoing maintenance. It may be appropriate to pipe the drains and toilet supplies for gray water even if you don't install the system initially. If higher performance gray water systems become available, then you can always install one, and having separate supply lines to toilets and laundry will allow you to use either rainwater or a future gray water system with minimal extra effort. ANSWERED BY CARL SEVILLE, GBA ADVISOR  Posted Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:31 2.

Joseph, Good green design and building doesn't follow a cookie-cutter checklist developed for a national audience. I agree with your implied criticism of greywater recycling systems for houses in high-rainfall areas: they don't make a lot of sense. Each climate has its own challenges. Where I live in northern Vermont, for example, water is plentiful, but warm days are few. In this climate, a very good thermal envelope designed to retain heat is an important green feature. Features designed to save water are much less important. Of course, in parts of Arizona or New Mexico, my priorities would be reversed. ANSWERED BY MARTIN HOLLADAY, GBA ADVISOR  Posted Mon, 05/23/2011 - 04:53

Thanks for responses. I was thinking along the same lines Martin. What I am really thinking though...how green can you be if your building an elaborate vacation home in a poor rural community? Things are getting pretty twisted....green washing. ANSWERED BY JOSEPH GARTEN  Posted Sun, 05/29/2011 - 19:31      

Already February!

I can't believe it is mid -February and we have barely had winter this year! 

I think everyone is feeling hopeful in 2012. So far Trillium is off to a bubbling start with lots of new home renovation jobs and a couple of new modern green homes on the boards. 

Remember - just because your realtors tell you modern doesn't sell doesn't mean it's true. I have so many clients who walk in the door and say 'what I really want is a modern home, but my realtor tells me I can't build one.' No! It may not be the biggest market but there truly is a market for houses that are a bit more 'dwell magazine'. And we love to design them! 

We will start posting more images of what we are working on soon...here is one for now~

 

In the mean time Happy non-winter/ almost spring/ new year and happy renovating!

Elizabeth

Building a Hybrid Wall

I am one of the 'Pro's' on the Green Home Guide Website and as so I answer technical questions every month regarding green building. It is a very informative site!

Here is a link: http://greenhomeguide.com/

Below is one of my most recent question/answer's:

Q: New Construction, is a hybrid system the way to go for a 2x6 walls, 1 inch foam and the rest blown cellulose? Hybrid system vs just blown in cellulose for 2x6?

Asked by Scott

Paw Paw, MI

 

Hi Scott

As an Architect who designs only sustainable homes I am always a fan of the hybrid wall. But you have to do it right. You climate will heavily influence the type of hybrid wall you should build.

I see that Paw Paw, MI is in climate zone 5 but the northern edge of climate zone 5.

I live and work at the southern edge of climate zone 5 and a lot of our work falls to climate zone 4 or is right on the edge of 5 and 4. 

Why am I saying all of this? Basically there is a ratio of exterior foam board insulation to interior cavity insulation that is ideal to achieve a great thermal envelope and at the same time avoid issues of moisture and mold occurring within the wall cavity. Basically the warmer the climate zone, the less exterior vs interior insulation you need to avoid air travelling into the wall cavity, reaching the dew point and turning into moisture.

So, in Zone 4 you can easily get away with 1 inch of polyiso rigid board insulation on the outside (about an R5) and 2x6 walls on the inside filled with foam or cellulose or some other cavity insulation. But when you get to Zone 5 you will get into trouble when you do that. In my area (southern Zone 5) you need at least an R7.5 (generally speaking) which is about an inch and a half. As you get more northern you need more- up to 2 or 2 ½ inches of rigid foam to your interior wall cavity.

The ironic thing is that – because this is all about the ratio of exterior to interior- if you build a 2x4 wall you need less exterior insulation. But in the colder climates what is the point of that? If you do that you significantly reduce the overall R value of your wall.

The biggest complication of putting more than 1” of rigid insulation on the exterior turns out to be construction. If you are only using 1” you can shoot your siding right through that to the stud beyond and it really does not complicate the construction process.

However if you are using more than an inch you have to introduce battens on top of the rigid insulation and lag through to the studs beyond and then attach your siding to the battens. (If you are using lap siding this is simple- battens are vertical to allow water to run down the wall, lap siding fastens horizontally across. But if you are using shingles or vertical panels you have to add horizontal nailers on top of the vertical battens and then attach shingles, panels etc. This is called a rain screen. There is more labor and a bit more material cost (battens are cheap).

This is a GREAT wall. Probably the best wall you can get. You get a lot of continuous insulation around the house plus you have an air space (the rainscreen) between you siding and the house itself. This air space makes the siding and the siding’s finish (no matter what kind of siding) last longer and require a lot less maintenance/ painting. If there is enough money in the job I will always go for this wall.

In your northern climate you deserve this wall! Your house will perform really well and you would not be sorry.

Another way to do the wall (my friends in Minnesota do this sort of wall primarily) is to simply build a double wall. Maybe a 2x4 wall, then a 2 “ gap, then another 2x4 wall. Fill the whole thing with whatever insulation you like. Cuts thermal bridging and you avoid the ratio issue.

One big factor of getting your wall to perform well is to focus on air infiltration as well as R Values. Some insulations like spray foams and rigid foam boards have their own innate air barrier properties, whereas batt and loose fill insulations like cellulose, cotton batt, blown fiberglass, etc do not.  If you use one of the latter you should also pay very close attention so sealing all air gaps in the wall assembly. (You should do so with the foams as well, of course. There are simple less gaps in the foamed walls. ) That is a whole other topic.

In summing up- hybrid walls are great, you just have to do them right. There is a lot of information and complexity to true building science. You can usually get more help form one of your local green building professional to talk through your exact project. Just make sure whomever you talk to really knows their stuff and didn’t just recently become ‘green’ for marketing reasons!

Best of luck!

Elizabeth DiSalvo, Architect

To Window or Not To Window?

To Window or Not to Window?

Below is my response to a post by Martin Holliday on the Green Building Advisor Web Site.  See article here:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/more-energy-myths#comment-34970

Basically part of the article states that it is really not worth it financially to get new windows because though they do save energy, you will not get 'pay back' for those windows during the life time of those windows. Something we hear regularly enough in the green building world. The recommendation is to basically just buy storm windows instead.

MY RESPONSE:

I understand every point that Martin is making about windows- I have heard it many times- but there are a few points that engineers never (rarely) take into account in the window replacement argument. (And I get that this is the engineer's job- cold hard data- and 'get a storm window' is the answer when you are just looking at the cold hard data of energy saving vs cost of new windows - both monetarily and in embodied energy. So fine- I get it.) 

BUT, I am an architect and I am very pro 'window replacement' for the following reasons:

1. Good windows DO save energy and money. (Ok you don't get to full payback on energy alone.)

2. Good windows give you the actual feeling of comfort in a house- better than a storm does (believe me I live with both right this second.) You do not have the experience of sitting next to a very cold surface with a good new window.

3. Safety. Most old windows barely open. Add a stiff, hard to operate storm window (and we all know they are that way) and you double the problem. I changed the windows in the house I live in when my 7 year old was afraid of fire and kept asking me 'but how mommy- how can we open the windows and get out?' I looked at our crappy single pane double-hungs with their impossible storms (that, btw, no fireman could fit thru),  and I put an ax next to my son's bedroom window and ordered new windows. Neither my son nor my 72 year old mother could open any windows in the house more than a crack when the storms are on in the winter, I can only  open them a bit more than they can. We don't have the strength. There are THOUSANDS of houses like this in the U.S.

4. Aesthetics. Want to up the value of your house? Want to get some curb appeal? Try new windows. Yes some historic homes look way better with their original windows but most houses built between 1940 and 1990 would be greatly enhanced with decent windows. This may seem like a minor point to some but - hey - your house is your biggest investment. Re-sale is usually important. Windows often 'make' the house. 

5. Leakage; Leakage DOES matter. Even if it is not as much as your attic or basement (Note also that one of the things on the recommendation list (above) is to have a blower door test and another is to insulate the attic ONLY AFTER sealing the ceiling below the attic - so it MUST matter right?)  When you replace your windows you actually have a chance to do it right, kill much of the air infiltration and also stave off, or mitigate a lot of moisture rot. We all know that basically every house from the 50's and 60's with single pane windows is rotting at the sills as we speak - if they have not already been cobbled with trim, flashing and caulk 'band-aids' many times already.

Anyway- I know the point Martin is making about windows is valid- sort of- but I am so tired of the green industry telling everyone to not waste their money on new windows!! These 5 other reasons are very strong reasons to get new windows and I think we should all be taking a more integrated, whole house approach to our buildings. And speaking more carefully about getting new windows. 

Also - curtains in the windows may not really help- by the numbers- for keeping your house warmer/ saving energy- BUT they sure do make you feel better in a room with those cold windows in the

winter....

Elizabeth

In the News!

 

Our latest LEED Registered home was featured in the Darien News last week! We were happy to spread the word about living alternatively in Fairfield County. More and more people of wealth are considering a simpler life style with a smaller carbon footprint. You can read here about a family who chose to build a smaller home and to make it as clean and green as they possibly could! We love the story behind this house and the process was such a great experience for everyone involved that we hold it up as the model for what we think every home building experience should replicate. 

Here is the link:

http://www.trilliumarchitects.com/darien-news-9-30-11/

Enjoy!

Elizabeth